立法院第10屆第7會期外交及國防、經濟兩委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄 時　　間　中華民國112年4月24日（星期一）9時6分至9時20分 地　　點　本院紅樓301會議室 主　　席　蔡委員適應 主席：出席委員22人已足法定人數，現在開會。 進行討論事項。 討　論　事　項 一、繼續審查行政院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府與馬紹爾群島共和國政府經濟合作協定」案。 二、審查行政院函請審議已完成換文修正之「中華民國（臺灣）政府與馬紹爾群島共和國政府經濟合作協定」案。 主席：本次會議繼續審查「中華民國（臺灣）政府與馬紹爾群島共和國政府經濟合作協定」案，本案於109年12月9日之聯席審查已完成報告及詢答，因本席提出附件中有關關稅減讓清單部分尚未審議完成，不宜逕行審議通過，以免形成空白授權，經聯席會主席裁定，待雙方政府商訂完成附件之降稅清單並送立法院後再擇期繼續審查，行政院已將換文修正的協定本送請立法院審查，今天就接續審查。 現在開始繼續審查，討論事項第一案為原協定文本、第二案為修訂事項之節略，請議事人員分別摘要宣讀。 [image: image1.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "E:\\f\\陳冠如\\工作\\完稿\\1090414\\T\\T51-1_頁面_03.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image2.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "E:\\f\\陳冠如\\工作\\完稿\\1090414\\T\\T51-1_頁面_04.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image3.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "E:\\f\\陳冠如\\工作\\完稿\\1090414\\T\\T51-1_頁面_05.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image4.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "E:\\f\\陳冠如\\工作\\完稿\\1090414\\T\\T51-1_頁面_06.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image5.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "E:\\f\\陳冠如\\工作\\完稿\\1090414\\T\\T51-1_頁面_07.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image6.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE 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"F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_222.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image268.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_223.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image269.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_224.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image270.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_225.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image271.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_226.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image272.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_227.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image273.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_228.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image274.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_229.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image275.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_230.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image276.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_231.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image277.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_232.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image278.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_233.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image279.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_234.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image280.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_235.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image281.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_236.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image282.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_237.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image283.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_238.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image284.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_239.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image285.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_240.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image286.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_241.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image287.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_242.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image288.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_243.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image289.jpg] INCLUDEPICTURE "F:\\..\\..\\0206\\13\\T13-1A_頁面_244.jpg" \* MERGEFORMAT [image: image290.jpg] 主席：第一案及第二案合併審查，請問各位委員對於通過我國與馬紹爾經修正後之經濟合作協定有無異議？沒有的話，我提個問題好了。 我想請教一下經濟部，關於我們提給馬紹爾跟馬紹爾給我們的主要降稅物品，我想再確認一下，我看看資料對不對，我是從你們的資料抓出來的。第一個是我國自馬紹爾主要進口的產品，2021年一年的金額大概是五萬四千多美金，沒錯吧？ 主席：請經濟部林次長說明。 林次長全能：2021年是這樣子，但2022年增加相當多。 主席：2022年是多少？你剛剛講顛倒吧！ 林次長全能：是，自馬紹爾進口的部分2022年降低到9,397美元。 主席：為什麼會差這麼多？ 林次長全能：因為2021年跟2022年剛好遇到疫情，當地受到疫情影響，人力生產減少。 主席：他們2021年一年進到臺灣的商品總價值大概是五萬四千多美金左右嘛，對不對？ 林次長全能：是。 主席：主要進來的商品是冷凍魚？ 林次長全能：是。 主席：所以冷凍魚的部分我們給予他零關稅的優惠，沒有錯吧？ 林次長全能：是。 主席：馬紹爾群島進口到臺灣主要的商品90%以上是冷凍魚，而它也會列入這一次經濟合作協定零關稅的部分？ 林次長全能：是。 主席：這是第一個我想確認的。第二個關於我們對於馬紹爾的出口，我想確認一下2021年是不是8,600萬美金左右，沒錯吧？ 林次長全能：是。 主席：然後2022年變四億三千多？ 林次長全能：是。 主席：疫情的關係怎麼會增加這麼多？ 林次長全能：這部分是我們出口很多他那邊需要的一些油類產品。 主席：這個油類產品有沒有列在我們雙方的減稅清單裡面？ 林次長全能：目前對方沒有開給我們這樣的清單。 主席：對方沒有開給我們？ 林次長全能：是。 主席：對方開給我們的有列在我們的主要出口項目裡面嗎？ 林次長全能：農產品的部分有在對方給我們的減讓清單裡面。 主席：農產品？ 林次長全能：是。 主席：所以是我們排序第二項的商品，是不是？也就是我們排序第一項的商品他並沒有同意。 林次長全能：是。 主席：為什麼？ 林次長全能：馬紹爾那邊當然有他們的考量，這一次的降稅清單基本上是以尊重馬紹爾所提出來的方式為主，事實上我們現在跟馬紹爾有相當大的順差，所以這次我們給予比較大的減讓，事實上這份協定不是只有降稅清單，還有很多的合作，我想從其他合作也能促進雙方往更好的面向…… 主席：能不能再請你們說明一下，因為之前你們沒有說明，所以兩方提出降稅清單之後，你們預估馬紹爾群島因此獲得的稅損跟我們的稅損分別大概是多少錢？你們應該有估吧？ 主席：請經濟部國貿局李副局長說明。 李副局長冠志：目前稅率的部分，我們出口到馬紹爾的再加上馬紹爾輸出到臺灣的部分其實存在非常大的落差，我們的順差非常大。 主席：我知道。 李副局長冠志：所以以馬紹爾目前對臺灣的出口，以去年只有九千三百多美元來看的話，如果未來…… 主席：九千三百？ 李副局長冠志：對，去（2022）年我們從馬紹爾進口的部分只有1萬美元左右，所以去年是大幅衰退，因為剛才次長有說明是受到疫情的影響還有當地產業受到衝擊，所以我們也預估在協定執行的初期，對我們稅損的影響可能比較有限，因為我們這些開放的項目是降為零關稅。 主席：那它原來的稅收這樣加起來多少錢？以2022年馬紹爾群島賣到臺灣的商品其關稅大概收了多少？因為降到零了嘛？ 李副局長冠志：是。 主席：會差多少錢？你們應該有資料吧？今天來審查的時候。 李副局長冠志：我們查一下再…… 主席：然後我們賣給馬紹爾的部分呢？ 李副局長冠志：我們賣給它的部分就是在當地繳的關稅。 主席：對，然後因為降零大概差多少？ 李副局長冠志：我們查一下再馬上跟委員報告。 主席：好吧，那這樣好不好，查完之後麻煩你把資料給經濟委員會跟外交國防委員會聯席審查會議的委員，今天要來審查，你們應該要提供資料，但你們都沒有提供。 請趙委員天麟發言。 趙委員天麟：我想請教田次長，這是題外話啦，因為媒體有提到美國前國安顧問波頓要來，他被形容為未來有可能要選總統的人選之一，未來好像還有一些貴賓會來，這是題外話，但是因為美國對我們的友邦有實質的影響力，所以想請教你，以您的觀察來講，在接下來的美國總統大選裡，臺灣會不會成為一個很熱門的議題？想說您難得來，想聽聽你的意見。 主席：請外交部田次長說明。 田次長中光：我認為臺灣的議題不光是美國關注，其實全世界自由民主的國家，包括日本、韓國，在我們週遭的國家大家都很關注臺灣以及臺海的安全跟穩定，當然波頓在美國政壇也算是相當有知名度的，我認為只要支持臺灣走向自由民主道路的，不管是美國友人也好、日本友人也好，我們都予以歡迎。 趙委員天麟：所以你認為接下來的美國總統大選，臺灣跟臺海安全議題成為主旋律之一應該也不意外了，對不對？ 田次長中光：應該是這樣子，當然美國本身的國內經濟、安全跟整個大環境也是他們必須要去瞭解的，不過臺灣議題勢必成為他們辯論中一個非常重要的主題之一。 趙委員天麟：好，謝謝，我沒有問題了。 主席：如果在場委員都沒有任何異議，我們均照案通過，提報院會。 有關「中華民國（臺灣）政府與馬紹爾群島共和國政府經濟合作協定」案，包括原協定文本及修訂節略含附件，業已合併審查完竣，擬具審查報告提報院會，請問院會審議前是否須交付黨團協商？應該不用，院會審議時請推派一位委員做補充說明，請推派，由召委蔡適應代表。 本次會議到此結束，散會。 散會（9時20分）